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| Wednesday, 27 January 2010 11:06 |
The harsh reality of empty stadiumsHuge problem casting shadow over game in
PortugalBut increasingly this success is being put under risk owing to a major problem undermining the domestic game in It is expected that a second-tier league such as Liga Sagres will always be beaten by the European elite in terms of attendances. However, according to a study by football site Futebol Finance, Portugal not only lags behind the likes of the Premiership, La Liga and Bundesliga but also behind the more obscure Swiss League and even Germany’s 2nd tier.
The problem is not new; we’ve heard about it for years, but there hasn’t been an actual plan to address it to date. Having followed the league for as long as I can remember, I believe the problem lies in 3 main aspects:
Kick-off timesTV deals dictate that matches have to be played at times that are far from attractive. If Uniao de Leiria plays against Pacos de Ferreira on Monday at 21.30, who’s going to watch it? With both teams boasting a modest following and people having to work the following day, there’s barely any incentive to go to the stadium! Unlike
Big three dominationCompared to other leagues, the rivalry between cities and regions is not as intense. The vast majority of people support one of the big Three – FC Porto, Benfica or Sporting – and only Vitoria Guimaraes and
Bad planningI also have to criticize the poor planning and decision-making of the people who designed venues with large capacities when not even 50% is filled. Apart from the higher maintenance costs, it is different to play in front of 3,000 people in a 30,000- seat stadium than in a family-sized 5,000-seater. In a smaller stadium, there’s no embarrassing echo and both fans and players are brought together! Therefore, Nacional’s decision to stick with a more compact stadium is very commendable.
Addressing these points is not straightforward and requires a joint effort by the clubs and the league. As much as I’d like to see match times change, I don’t see that happening anytime soon because TV deals are an important source of revenue for most clubs. And when you have no money, you have no bargaining power either.
Every now and then I hear about the alleged ‘prohibitive’ ticket prices, but I don’t think that is a real problem because most clubs offer paying supporters very attractive packages. Of course smaller clubs sometimes inflate their ticket prices for a big match, but that is only a reflex of their inability to attract people on a regular day.
Home-grown solution
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Portugal
Attendance has always been a problem in Portugal. I believe that the main reason for it, like it has been mentioned, is most people are fans of the "Big Three" and barely keep an eye toward their regional team. Everyone wants to root for a winner and/or for a club with history.
I don't agree with the thought that bringing in regional players would help smaller clubs. How many players exactly could Naval bring in? Aren't they near Coimbra and be competing for that same talent? Same holds true for Rio Ave, who would be competing with Braga, Porto and Guimaraes, no?
The problem is not the nationality of the players, but the way clubs run their marketing and outreach programs. Meaning that they have none. A club has to reach out to the community through events, gatherings, promotions, etc... I don't think that any of that goes on.
I was in Portugal last season, and actually went to a Belenenses match, since Benfica was away. Unless I went and took a look at the schedule, I never would have known there was a game. I just wanted to take in a game and being from the area, I thought it was great. It wasn't the greatest match, but I admit that I actually enjoyed myself in watching them beat Naval 2-0. I also admit if the match had taken place in the afternoon, it would have been much better. It would have been great to go out to dinner after the match and discuss the game and take in the sights. Instead of just going to the Docas for drinks afterwards, I would have sat for dinner and spent more money.
To underline the lack of marketing, I also had the opportunity to go see Setubal play, and was in the city when a game was going to take place, yet you would have never known it.
Plenty of clubs have a lot of Portuguese players, yet you don't see them filling the stadiums. The fact is that clubs themselves don't do anything to promote themselves, their players, or try to integrate themselves into their communities. This holds true for the "Big Three" as well, since they feel as if they don't have to.
I always thought that the pricing was expensive, but after being there I thought it wasn't that bad. Maybe it's because I'm used to the prices in the US. I do agree that clubs need to and should hold better promotions in order to get people in the stands. How about a child gets in for free with an adult. Block off a section for families. Buy three, get one free. Are there game packages available?
I bought great seats, seven in total, for the Benfica thrashing of Setubal last year, but I'm glad I didn't bring my daughter. Eventhough there isn't alcohol being sold, next to me was an idiot screaming obsenities for no reason at all. It was simply idiotic in how he and his buddy just screamed, not cheered, about everything. Not necessarly a friendly atmosphere, and this was with Benfica winning easily. Keep in mind that I wouldn't bring my daughter to an NFL game either.
The revenue sharing isn't going to work. It doesn't work in Hockey, and to a lesser extent the MLB. The Pittsburgh Pirates owner is basically pocketing the money he gets from the Yankees instead of making his club better. He could care less if the Pirates win or lose, since he's making a nice profit just from the luxury tax revenue. By the way, the Pirates attendance is bismal as well.
I know that people use the excuse that all the games are on TV anyway, but that's the same situation in the US. Yet the big clubs still fill the stadiums at home and on the road. Lesser clubs don't, but the big US cities have a huge pool of people to get intothe stands. Portugal smaller clubs, just don't have that. What is the population of Aveiro, that Beira-Mar has to work with? They play in a beautiful stadium, and although currently only filling it 17.7% to capacity, they are 5th in attendance with an average of 5,299.
The fact is that Portugal is a small nation of only 10 million and not everyone is a football fan. It's ok to have the "Big Three" along with a few other mainstays, Guimaraes and Braga. The key is for those mainstays to compete for a Champions League spot every so often, and have other clubs rotate in competing for an European spot with those mainstays. My biggest concern is that Portugal will become the "Big Two" because of the coefficient.
There is no easy answers, and the way the world economy is, I don't think that there are any easy solutions either. There are plenty of empty stadiums in Italy and Spain as well. The only country that seems to be doing a great job in filling teh stands is Germany.
I like the idea of making the Portuguese League like the Scottish Premier League: making a smaller league and making incentives for clubs to build from the bottom up. I love everybody's input for a local talent base to build up smaller clubs.
I would add to that to impose a moratorium on transferring these young Portuguese players from moving to the Big 3 or other foreign clubs as a way to promote talent and showcase. Limit the number of foreign players.
Finally, make soccer specific stadiums as they are doing in the MLS. Growing markets means you must adhere to the principal of going small than going up, rather than building monster stadiums hoping for a future draw of fans in the future.
boring games with too many stopages
poor refereeing
too many brazilians - no local identity
Just like Portugal as a society the league will never change.
I recommend you just watch other leagues and enjoy real soccer because in Portugal it will never change.!!!
Fans arent turning up becuase mainly
1. Its boring,
2. Its not competitive
3. A lot of clubs are'nt solvent
4. No local identity (foreigners)
The whole league needs to be reviewed by an independent body.
Considerations should include
draft
salary caps
kick off times
foreigners limits
solvency criteria
reduction in teams
better distribution of income
It baffles me how a nation of 10million has so many professional teams.
Id rather have a SET 10 team league with NO relegation. This way at least half the teams would qualify for europe every year.
What i suspect is going to happen is
NOTHING
The NHL method does not work.. and overall that league is going into the garbage bin with Gary Bettman destroying the game.
After near 30 odd years of hockey, I have barely watched a game for the last 3 years and haven't missed a beat. I don't miss the aggravation of living in the hottest market and have the league care diddly screwing us because we are constantly sold out for small market teams that waste money.
I am originally from Acores and our main teams there are Benfica and Sporting.. I don't even know how many teams are on my island and where they play, and could care less.
I think overall it is a more humanistic question that is being asked than it is a systemic issue in Portugal.. although everyone has their share of the blame.
Truth is we have more similarity to the Scottish League & Dutch than any of the top Ligas... there are few quality teams.. the others blow their budgets just trying to keep it civil and it gets blown out of proportion.
We shouldn't subsidize the small teams extortionately hoping for the best because we have a half Italian half Frenchman in charge of UEFA who's best interests would be served by both of those leagues elevating their talent through legislation.
I didn't hear Platini screaming in the background when Serie A and the French Ligue were cheating and overpaying.. now that the French and Italian leagues are 3rd rate at best.. the cries of poverty come in.
Mr. Platini should be concentrating on the diving douche bags from France and Italy as well as other countries that have won trophies through disgrace, not skill and continually detract all the people with disposable income.
My point being.. and I am sure many won't agree but will state it anyways... the time for so many leagues of separated talent is over.. the Big 16 have been pushing for a while to create a Super League, and they are spot on.
Even in the greatest Ligas in Europe there is no competition.. it is the haves and the have-nots.. and that isn't entertaining to the average fan, hence empty stadiums for teams that don't stack up to their bigger cousins.
In England which is the strongest league there is 4 possibly 5 good teams, Spain 3, Italy 1 or 2, Germany 1, Holland 2, etc etc.. Portugal 3..
The reason we have clung to 3 so tightly is because they win.. people rarely support losers.. rare few exceptions with Toronto in the NHL being one of them, but that is corporate money, and not fan money .
Part of the main problem with Footie is its lack of status for the business giant.. going to some Toronto or NY Ranger private boxes on a sold out night with very few drunk average Joes.. is a status symbol.
The prices shouldn't be lowered they should be raised if you want to make money. Make it cosier get rid of the hooligans... add exclusive areas.. make it for the wealthy and elite.. and make the venues more exclusive. That is the answer.
Then ordinary people will complain about the prices as they save for 3 months to go to a game with their son and then barely be able to get a seat.
Same philosophy works in love.. you are too accessible and easy and no woman wants to sleep with you.. walk into a club with 3 girls on your arm and loving on you and a lineup will start. It is all about status.
Truth is a Super League is long overdue.. fact is there will probably only be one Portuguese team in it per year.. but we will be near the top of the Super Championship League or whatever they call the second division.
I would rather see more competitive football games than the crazy stuff that goes on in Portugal with the silliness of the FA that runs it like a bunch of amateurs.
Many great comments throughout this post.. with the price of Sport TV.. vs gates.. although I do think what it is missing is an exclusive feel most older people with money do not want to mess with riff raff as it makes their panties get moist.
As for Luis.. he is right Queiroz should be immediately fired from the National Team. He is a second rate boss who is only fit to manage a youth squad and his track record has proved that repeatedly over long periods of time, so I second the notion that he should manage youth development..
although I am not as xenophobic.. I sometimes wish the Managers would invest in the sparkling homegrown talent that they never or rarely play. Take Benfica and Coentrao for example.. he gets a minor run-out.. but Ramires who is tired from not having a break for 1 1/2 because of the differing Brazil schedule.. gets started ahead.
I like Ramires but he even played in the Confed Cup during the summer not to mention qualifying for the WC, he is blown out.. rest the guy.
Anyways things won't change.. the BIG 3 are what they are and will always be. I take pride in them in Europe.. sure Braga is having a great year and Vitoria Guim has there moments.. but reality is changing for a less xenophobic more centralized Super League.. where the games mean more and where countries support a team or two.. and the games are at their highest week in and week out.. with other teams vying in Division Two to make their crack at the European Super League.
I want to see Man U playing Real or Benfica more often.. not less.. so why rob money from our competitive teams in the Liga Sagres to bolster the overspending ones at the bottom that cheat us out of high scoring games by overspending and blowing their budgets.
I offer a different perspective for you to ponder.
Keep up the great posts gentlemen.
There are some talented players in the smaller teams, but they never stay for long. Some teams do have a good amount of supporters, but don't go to games. These teams include Belenenses, Setubal, and Maritimo. I heard Maritiomo is going to build a new stadium. These teams are more than capable of getting at least 10,000 supporters a game.
If any one knows what the average salary is for players in the teams not in the big 3, I would love to know. They probably get payed close to nothing, with this terrible economy right now in Portugal, I wouldn't be surprised if half the teams in the league are in serious risk of dieing like beira mar, boavista, and estrela amadora. It is a shame that brand new stadiums in leiria, aveiro, and boavista's will probably be teared down. It must be horrible for a player playing in a beautiful 30,000 seat stadium with less than 3,000 fans. Where is the loyalty to your local team.
To dan in canada, I know that their is regional loyalty in Portugal, but not nearly to the same extent as Spain or Italy where many people put region in front of country, look at athletic bilbao. I still feel that the fact that like 90% of all portuguese people support one of the big 3 is proof. I see some room for improvement, but I doubt that we will be seeing loyal 30,000 fans watching Academica and Pacos ferreira any time soon.
We pay big money to watch the big three play here in Canada $3500 for six matches and some europe cup, mostly bar owners subscribe. And at home RTPi is $20 a month 1 channel showing 1 game a week. Free to air I might add if you have a dish (LEGAL FREE TO AIR) shows National squad atleast, we used to have the liga package 3 years ago I think $400 for the season. couldn't sell never offered again.
I love SLB and we have to pay lots to watch, thanks for internet. Last thought Carlos Queiroz, has done something Scholari never did find world wide Portugues talent, Duda comes to mind Scholari had his starting 11 the rest were expericenced players on the bench, after FIGO, COSTA, PAULETA etc left, he left. Ronaldo will always be the man love em or hate him but carlos has a handle of his talent pool and is using it. FORCA SLB!!
Although I don't think Queiroz is the man for the job, it would be great to get a president of the Liga who was really interested in promoting the game rather than making money and influencing people. Crazy as it seems, I imagine someone Sá Pinto would be great at that role - he's at just about every lower league game I attend in Lisbon. The fact that he's a nutter might actually benefit him in such a situation, "Oi! Portuguese people on your sofas. Get down to your local football team's stadium and support them next Sunday otherwise I'll come by your house and beat the cr*p out of you!!!"
I think it could work...
I believe the answer lies in Carlos Queiroz. When it comes to implementing system which can maximize the developement young talent Queiroz has proven that there are few minds in the world of football with his knowledge and vision. The first and best step toward stabalizing the Portuguese Liga would be to bring in Mr. Queiroz in such a capacity.
I agree with that it would be better to have more home-grown players and to have a sense of community. I lived just outside Lisbon in 2004 and one of the Mafra players was a regular at my church. I went to see him train and play a friendly. If I had had a car I would have liked to go to more matches simply for thar reason
I also have to agree with the argument regarding European places. Having that third Champions League spot did wonders, but blame Sporting and Benfica for not taking advantage of it and rarely qualifying from that third spot. Time after time it was only Porto going through to the knockout phase and eventually our lack of success caught up with us. I'm praying Benfica win the Europa, Sporting go far, and Porto make at least the quarters in the CL. It's a start, and it's money being sent to Portuguese teams.
The occasional times games are moved to midday, attendances and atmospheres rise unmistakably. I like to watch the Liga Vitalis games they have on Sunday mornings and you always have a good attendance at them from both home and away fans.
The one thing you've missed Sergio, that in my opinion really kills attendances, is the short sightedness of clubs beyond providing for their own socíos. I just won't bother going to Estrella of Belenenses to watch a game without a socío to get me in because you have to pay twice as much for a ticket to sit in what is always the worst part of the ground. The presidents of clubs just don't see football as an entertaining activity, something you might want to do with the kids one afternoon but wouldn't want to do all season. Season tickets are incredibly cheap in Portugal but only the hardcore want to go to every game in a season. The passing fan or person who just fancies watching a game is completely ostracised.
One idea which the fans of the big 3 wouldn't like is to have some type of support system like they do in the NHL. If team makes X number of profits, then a small amount should go to the league. The league then uses this pot to offer a discount on smaller clubs ticket prices on smaller games.
At the end of the day there has to be a mix of solutions that will help this problem. Having some of the big 3 do well in Europe would also help increase the number of clubs that go to Europa (I think that's one of the reasons that Braga and Guimaraes have done well)
its simple make tickets cheaper or offer more attractive packages to members. the portuguese football association should step in and tax teams relative to their income and give more money to lesser teams pending that they increase attendance rates. in simple terms take money from the big teams and give them only to teams struggling and who can prove they can increase their attendance rates.
I agree with the other things you mentioned about home growing players and the match times, but the true root of this problem is the small population and the dominance of the big 3.